NBA Ratings Up This Season!

[BlackRain]

 

[RandomNegro]

I think the NBA cup is a perfect example of it. I asked people what exactly is the issue with a cup, and those that said they don’t like it, didn’t have an issue telling me that they didn’t like it, but ran into problems explaining why. That’s the problem with the media is that they ruined NBA and sports discourse moving forward. When they talk about load management they’re literally talking about some of the most physically hamstrung people you can think of.

Kawhi Leonard with degenerative knee issues, Anthony Davis who you can see when he jumps and lands his knees dip into each other, Joel Embiid, who came into the NBA hurt, and Paul George, who had one of the worst sports injuries you could ever see. They create storylines and then get upset at the storyline for existing, but they created it.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I think the NBA cup is a perfect example of it. I asked people what exactly is the issue with a cup, and those that said they don’t like it, didn’t have an issue telling me that they didn’t like it, but ran into problems explaining why. That’s the problem with the media is that they ruined NBA and sports discourse moving forward. When they talk about load management they’re literally talking about some of the most physically hamstrung people you can think of.

Kawhi Leonard with degenerative knee issues, Anthony Davis who you can see when he jumps and lands his knees dip into each other, Joel Embiid, who came into the NBA hurt, and Paul George, who had one of the worst sports injuries you could ever see. They create storylines and then get upset at the storyline for existing, but they created it.

People don't really have a problem with the NBA Cup. They have a problem with the reason it was created. Basically, players were no longer taking the regular season serious and even were bold enough to say as much. The NBA Cup was created to return some excitement to the regular season. Old school fans have a problem with the fact that players that are already making more money than they ever have before need a silly in-season tournament and the chance to get even more money just to do the job that other players did for decades.

 

[RandomNegro]

People don't really have a problem with the NBA Cup. They have a problem with the reason it was created. Basically, players were no longer taking the regular season serious and even were bold enough to say as much. The NBA Cup was created to return some excitement to the regular season. Old school fans have a problem with the fact that players that are already making more money than they ever have before need a silly in-season tournament and the chance to get even more money just to do the job that other players did for decades.

Players in the past did not have to deal with the 24/7 news cycle of media members disrespecting the efforts that you put in through the season. It was the media that made the regular season seem as if it didn’t mean anything. Like it bothered me when LaDainian Thomas would play in San Diego and would work his body to the bone as this great running back and he would essentially be the teams battering ram and then when regular season would end, the playoffs start and because he did so much in a regular season, once he was hurt they made it seem like everything he did was just nothing. The players of today were the children of yesteryear that watched all these ESPN shows and see what the media says about how players get down, so if you’re gonna marginalize the regular season, you can’t get upset when it looks like the players, don’t respect it.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

Players in the past did not have to deal with the 24/7 news cycle of media members disrespecting the efforts that you put in through the season. It was the media that made the regular season seem as if it didn’t mean anything. Like it bothered me when LaDainian Thomas would play in San Diego and would work his body to the bone as this great running back and he would essentially be the teams battering ram and then when regular season would end, the playoffs start and because he did so much in a regular season, once he was hurt they made it seem like everything he did was just nothing. The players of today were the children of yesteryear that watched all these ESPN shows and see what the media says about how players get down, so if you’re gonna marginalize the regular season, you can’t get upset when it looks like the players, don’t respect it.

Bruh, you can't compare the NFL and NBA. Yes, there may be some dumb people making unreasonable critiques in both cases, but the NFL doesn't have a culture of devaluing the regular season. The NBA does. Players have spoken on it.



When players say things like that and then load management becomes a regular thing, it shouldn't be surprising that fans come away feeling like the players don't care about the regular season. You can't blame the media cycle for it and you can't just wave it away. A decade from now, people will probably just appreciate the NBA Cup for what it is, but right now, it's still tainted by the reasoning for why it was implemented. If anything it's Silver's and the NBA execs' fault for being so transparent about why they were creating the Cup.

 

[RandomNegro]

Bruh, you can't compare the NFL and NBA. Yes, there may be some dumb people making unreasonable critiques in both cases, but the NFL doesn't have a culture of devaluing the regular season. The NBA does. Players have spoken on it.



When players say things like that and then load management becomes a regular thing, it shouldn't be surprising that fans come away feeling like the players don't care about the regular season. You can't blame the media cycle for it and you can't just wave it away. A decade from now, people will probably just appreciate the NBA Cup for what it is, but right now, it's still tainted by the reasoning for why it was implemented. If anything it's Silver's and the NBA execs' fault for being so transparent about why they were creating the Cup.

The point is that I don’t like it when the media marginalizes the excellence, achievements, and overall work that athletes put in because they get hurt. You can’t just talk down about the regular season as if it doesn’t matter, create all kinds of different media surrounding that, and then when the children who watched those television shows become adult adults, you then can’t also throw on them that they’re load managing or they don’t take the game serious. This is what the media has created. They have made this reality.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

The point is that I don’t like it when the media marginalizes the excellence, achievements, and overall work that athletes put in because they get hurt. You can’t just talk down about the regular season as if it doesn’t matter, create all kinds of different media surrounding that, and then when the children who watched those television shows become adult adults, you then can’t also throw on them that they’re load managing or they don’t take the game serious. This is what the media has created. They have made this reality.

Bruh, when players, coaches, and execs all confirmed that load management was implemented as a real strategy in the league they were trying to use to preserve players for the playoffs, you can't just push it off on the media. I understand what you're saying, but availability matters too even when it comes to injury. When people bash load management, they usually aren't talking about players like Zion or Kawhi that stay perpetually hurt. They are talking about the players that perfectly healthy but don't feel like playing back to backs so they sit out. Or players that cherry pick the games they want to play based on what would be easier for them. Again, you can't blame that on the media. We've seen it ourselves.

 

[BlackRain]

Bruh, when players, coaches, and execs all confirmed that load management was implemented as a real strategy in the league they were trying to use to preserve players for the playoffs, you can't just push it off on the media. I understand what you're saying, but availability matters too even when it comes to injury. When people bash load management, they usually aren't talking about players like Zion or Kawhi that stay perpetually hurt. They are talking about the players that perfectly healthy but don't feel like playing back to backs so they sit out. Or players that cherry pick the games they want to play based on what would be easier for them. Again, you can't blame that on the media. We've seen it ourselves.

The peak of the load management came when players were sitting out games towards the end of seasons but that has tapered off. People do complain when even the athletes that are perpetually hurt dont play in back to backs. They understand they why but they still complain about it and the vast majority of load management now is done due to injuries because teams started getting fined after Greg Popovich was basically daring the league to do something to the Spurs about it. That phassd out, you can't name a time recently when a perfectly healthy player sat out just to do it in the last few years, the players sitting out just to do it. Zion and Kawhi stay getting flamed for not being healthy enough to play more games.

As been said before it's not just 1 thing it's a mixture of things.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

The peak of the load management came when players were sitting out games towards the end of seasons but that has tapered off. People do complain when even the athletes that are perpetually hurt dont play in back to backs. They understand they why but they still complain about it and the vast majority of load management now is done due to injuries because teams started getting fined after Greg Popovich was basically daring the league to do something to the Spurs about it. That phassd out, you can't name a time recently when a perfectly healthy player sat out just to do it in the last few years, the players sitting out just to do it. Zion and Kawhi stay getting flamed for not being healthy enough to play more games.

As been said before it's not just 1 thing it's a mixture of things.

All this is true. You have to remember, the NBA very rarely acts promptly. It's not like the passed the anti-flopping rules as soon as that became a problem. Players had been getting away with it for years before they decided to do anything. It's the same with things like the NBA Cup and 65 game rule for accolades. Maybe the problematic load management has tapered off now. That doesn't change the fact that the NBA Cup was created to combat the perceived disinterest players now show towards the regular season. It also don't change the fact that the primary reason most detractors hate on the NBA Cup is that they don't believe it should be necessary. They believe players should do their jobs without extra incentives.

 

[BlackRain]

All this is true. You have to remember, the NBA very rarely acts promptly. It's not like the passed the anti-flopping rules as soon as that became a problem. Players had been getting away with it for years before they decided to do anything. It's the same with things like the NBA Cup and 65 game rule for accolades. Maybe the problematic load management has tapered off now. That doesn't change the fact that the NBA Cup was created to combat the perceived disinterest players now show towards the regular season. It also don't change the fact that the primary reason most detractors hate on the NBA Cup is that they don't believe it should be necessary. They believe players should do their jobs without extra incentives.

And they should do it without the extra incentives....but it can't be denied how the coverage of the game and media talking heads "rings or nothing" argument has also fed into the same problems. Think about how long that's been going on now, over a decade plus, and now you got players in the league who literally grew up hearing those debate style arguing back and forth about how rings matter over everything else. It has in some ways affected how they approach the game. This is why people are giving so much praise to how NBC and Amazon have been covering this season. You can see a huge difference.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

And they should do it without the extra incentives....but it can't be denied how the coverage of the game and media talking heads "rings or nothing" argument has also fed into the same problems. Think about how long that's been going on now, over a decade plus, and now you got players in the league who literally grew up hearing those debate style arguing back and forth about how rings matter over everything else. It has in some ways affected how they approach the game. This is why people are giving so much praise to how NBC and Amazon have been covering this season. You can see a huge difference.

I honestly don't know what you guys are talking about when you say the "rings or nothing" argument. What does that even mean? A player has always needed rings to be considered the best of the best, but when has it ever been said that players aren't considered great without rings? Barkley, AI, TMac, Melo...none of them have rings, but they are all universally praised as all-time great players. Rings like everything else are only toxic when they're used in the GOAT debate. MJ fanatics constantly throw up the 6-0 statement and Lebron fanatics try to downplay the significance of championships since he's not catching MJ in that area. Outside of that I feel like the ring discussion is more balanced.

 

[BlackRain]

I honestly don't know what you guys are talking about when you say the "rings or nothing" argument. What does that even mean? A player has always needed rings to be considered the best of the best, but when has it ever been said that players aren't considered great without rings? Barkley, AI, TMac, Melo...none of them have rings, but they are all universally praised as all-time great players. Rings like everything else are only toxic when they're used in the GOAT debate. MJ fanatics constantly throw up the 6-0 statement and Lebron fanatics try to downplay the significance of championships since he's not catching MJ in that area. Outside of that I feel like the ring discussion is more balanced.

People have used rings or lack of to minimize or exaggerate how good a player was. It's been a very consistent thing for a minute now. And it extends beyond MJ and LeBron. Shit in one of these very threads somebody tried to go to the old tired Robert Horry is better because he has 7 rings argument. But there's been a downplaying of people like TMac, AI, Barkley, Harden, Melo, etc because they haven't won a ring and saying players who they were clearly better or on the same level skill wise were better because that player has a ring.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

People have used rings or lack of to minimize or exaggerate how good a player was. It's been a very consistent thing for a minute now. And it extends beyond MJ and LeBron. Shit in one of these very threads somebody tried to go to the old tired Robert Horry is better because he has 7 rings argument. But there's been a downplaying of people like TMac, AI, Barkley, Harden, Melo, etc because they haven't won a ring and saying players who they were clearly better or on the same level skill wise were better because that player has a ring.

I disagree. If possible, show me where someone said Robert Horry was better because he has 7 rings. Horry is usually brought up as the example that demonstrates that more rings =/= better player. I've never seen anyone unironically make the claim that Horry is a better player than a superstar with fewer rings.

Yes, people do use rings in debates between comparable players. For example, we saw a recent discussion about TMac vs Kobe where rings were brought up. No one claimed that Kobe was better than TMac because of the rings. People did point to the two rings Kobe won without Shaq as proof that Kobe could lead a team to a championship while TMac didn't. That's a fair point. It's not a "ring or nothing" argument. AI is my second favorite player ever. It matters that he couldn't win a ring. He's still an all-time great, but Steph being able to win 4 rings does a point in his favor against AI no matter how you want to look at it.

 

[BlackRain]

I disagree. If possible, show me where someone said Robert Horry was better because he has 7 rings. Horry is usually brought up as the example that demonstrates that more rings =/= better player. I've never seen anyone unironically make the claim that Horry is a better player than a superstar with fewer rings.

Yes, people do use rings in debates between comparable players. For example, we saw a recent discussion about TMac vs Kobe where rings were brought up. No one claimed that Kobe was better than TMac because of the rings. People did point to the two rings Kobe won without Shaq as proof that Kobe could lead a team to a championship while TMac didn't. That's a fair point. It's not a "ring or nothing" argument. AI is my second favorite player ever. It matters that he couldn't win a ring. He's still an all-time great, but Steph being able to win 4 rings does a point in his favor against AI no matter how you want to look at it.

It was a post by Vibe where he said he puts Horry "rings wise over Bron". I remember that TMac Kobe discussion and there were folks saying the rings alone made Kobe better. You can't speak in an absolute and say nobody said it because for 1 there's way too much basketball content and 2. It's factually incorrect because it happened and does happen when some talk about what began to separate the two. It was said and TMac not winning a ring or even getting to the Finals til he was a bench player on the Spurs is brought up in his career. The same reason why some folks say Wade is better than Harden is because of rings and not actual skill level. Again nobody is saying rings shouldn't matter or hold the most weight. What people, players and fans alike, disagree with is when folks use it as a sole determining factor. And thats what many of the debate style NBA content has boiled down to.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

It was a post by Vibe where he said he puts Horry "rings wise over Bron". I remember that TMac Kobe discussion and there were folks saying the rings alone made Kobe better. You can't speak in an absolute and say nobody said it because for 1 there's way too much basketball content and 2. It's factually incorrect because it happened and does happen when some talk about what began to separate the two. It was said and TMac not winning a ring or even getting to the Finals til he was a bench player on the Spurs is brought up in his career. The same reason why some folks say Wade is better than Harden is because of rings and not actual skill level. Again nobody is saying rings shouldn't matter or hold the most weight. What people, players and fans alike, disagree with is when folks use it as a sole determining factor. And thats what many of the debate style NBA content has boiled down to.

I feel like you're misrepresenting the statements people make.

I've never seen anyone say "Wade is better than Harden because he has rings." What I have seen is "Wade was able to put a team on his shoulders and carry it to a championship. Harden has repeatedly choked in the playoffs.. That's evidence for Wade being better." The same thing happened with the TMac vs Kobe debate. I didn't see anyone say "Kobe is better because he's got rings." In fact, more often people were actually trying to discredit Kobe's rings because they came with Shaq. The actual pro-Kobe arguments being made were "Kobe was able to lead a team to two championships without having another superstar. TMac had good teams too, but he wasn't able to win." You're oversimplifying the arguments that were made.

To be clear I'm not saying nobody in the history of the world made those oversimplified arguments, but they weren't the norm, so I don't see why you keep throwing them out like they were.

 

[BlackRain]

I feel like you're misrepresenting the statements people make.

I've never seen anyone say "Wade is better than Harden because he has rings." What I have seen is "Wade was able to put a team on his shoulders and carry it to a championship. Harden has repeatedly choked in the playoffs.. That's evidence for Wade being better." The same thing happened with the TMac vs Kobe debate. I didn't see anyone say "Kobe is better because he's got rings." In fact, more often people were actually trying to discredit Kobe's rings because they came with Shaq. The actual pro-Kobe arguments being made were "Kobe was able to lead a team to two championships without having another superstar. TMac had good teams too, but he wasn't able to win." You're oversimplifying the arguments that were made.

To be clear I'm not saying nobody in the history of the world made those oversimplified arguments, but they weren't the norm, so I don't see why you keep throwing them out like they were.

I think what you're missing is those comments are more frequent and common than you want to believe. You keep saying "I've never seen...." while multiple people have said they've seen the comments and talk over the years.

 

[The Lonious Monk]

I think what you're missing is those comments are more frequent and common than you want to believe. You keep saying "I've never seen...." while multiple people have said they've seen the comments and talk over the years.

You didn't read. I'm not saying those statements aren't made. I'm saying you're misrepresenting those statements. If they are as common as you say, please give me an example of someone saying that championships are THE reason Kobe is better than TMac or Wade is better than Harden. Yes, people bring up championships in those discussions, but they are most often part of the case for why one player is better than the other and not the sole reason as you're claiming.

 

[ThaManMythLegnd]

People have used rings or lack of to minimize or exaggerate how good a player was. It's been a very consistent thing for a minute now. And it extends beyond MJ and LeBron. Shit in one of these very threads somebody tried to go to the old tired Robert Horry is better because he has 7 rings argument. But there's been a downplaying of people like TMac, AI, Barkley, Harden, Melo, etc because they haven't won a ring and saying players who they were clearly better or on the same level skill wise were better because that player has a ring.

Stop talking basketball, please.

 

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